Jonathan Martin is one of the best political reporters in the country, and he is my latest guest on Q&A: here. He writes a column for Politico. He has worked at the New York Times, National Journal — and National Review. He is in the thick of the current campaign, as a reporter and analyst.
J-Mart (as he is known) grew up in Arlington, Va., across the Potomac from Washington, D.C. His parents, he says, “were and are just incredibly loving, generous people who inculcated in my brother and me a love of history and the country, and a curiosity about the country, too.” The family would spend vacations in Gettysburg, Appomattox, etc.
I ask him, “Did you read The Boys on the Bus?” That’s Timothy Crouse’s classic book (1973) on covering a presidential campaign. Yes, of course he did. But he also read What It Takes (1992), by Richard Ben Kramer, and Bob Novak’s memoirs, The Prince of Darkness (2007).
The way J-Mart puts it is, “If you’re an aspiring political journalist and you read those two books — and they’re big books — and you come away wanting more, you are aspiring to be in the right business.”
Martin enjoys his work. “I love being part of this,” he says, “this great show, the Greatest Show on Earth, which is American democracy.”
I ask, “What makes a good reporter?” Conversely, “what are the qualities of a bad reporter?” J-Mart’s answers are instructive.
One thing that has changed in journalism is that we all have tape recorders in our pockets — on our smartphones. Martin tells a story about Kevin McCarthy, busted in a lie. He denied having said something to fellow House Republicans. Then, lo, the tape rolled . . .
Our media environment is new. In my column today, I ask, “Does it make sense to speak of ‘the media’?” We are always blasting “the media.” What do we mean, “the media”? Media we dislike? As opposed to the media we like?
Martin says that “the media,” as a phrase and a notion, is practically worthless. The idea that three networks, two weekly newsmagazines, and a few big national papers are setting an agenda is nuts. He wants to ask people who believe otherwise, “What decade are you in?”
I ask him, “Who are the most interesting figures in Washington? Who are the most interesting interviewees?” He pauses. That’s a problem, he says. Washington has become “vanilla.” Politicians shy from talking to the press, being skittish about everything.
You know who’s a throwback? Lindsey Graham. He is ever colorful (and ever changing, in his political posture).
Jonathan and I talk about Trump, of course, and the challenges of covering Trump. He also compares the current election, and 2020, and perhaps even 2016, to the elections of 1872 and 1876. The question then was, “What do you think of the Civil War? Which way do you lean?” Today, the question is, “What do you think of Trump? For or against?” The country has Trump on the brain. The Republican Party has nominated him for president three times in a row. Never before has the GOP nominated anyone for president three times in a row.
Realignment is in the air. There has been “a great swap,” says Martin: Working-class folk have gone Republican, and college-educated suburbanites have gone Democratic.
At the end of our Q&A, Jonathan makes a statement that I will abbreviate and paraphrase:
A great thing about politics is that it’s not a spectator sport. People participate, and eventually people will get fed up and demand better. It’s hard to comprehend that a country with this much wealth and talent and drive and curiosity, winning at every dimension of life — by an order of magnitude — will not demand better government and better leaders. There’s too much at stake.
But my God, the gap between what we are as a country and the folks who lead us — and, by the way, I don’t mean just in national politics, I’m talking about all the way down the ballot. The quality of people who want to run for office now has been diminished. It’s one of the tragedies of our time, that people don’t want to bother with this.
I understand why people don’t want to bother. But if good people don’t step up, it will get worse and worse.
So, I hope people in general will rise up and demand better, and I feel confident that this will happen. It’s just not sustainable to have so big a gap between our intellectual and economic output and wattage and, to borrow a Cold War phrase, throw weight, and our politics and government, which are mediocre to embarrassing.
Jonathan Martin has spent a career asking questions, as a reporter. But he is a first-rate interviewee, too. Lots of smart stuff here. For political junkies, obviously, but for anyone interested, too — anyone interested in “the Greatest Show on Earth.” Again, to listen to our Q&A, go here.