He is addressing Congress and the United Nations while here in the United States, but the primary reason that Pope Francis is in the United States is the World Meeting of Families, an ecumenical, international conference going on throughout the week in Philadelphia. Among the speakers is Naomi Schaefer Riley, author of ’Til Faith Do Us Part: How Interfaith Marriage Is Transforming America. Riley, a former intern for National Review, is of the Jewish faith. She talks about some the challenges for interfaith marriage in advance of her talk this week.
Kathryn Jean Lopez: How is interfaith marriage transforming America?
Naomi Schaefer Riley: Starting from the largest level and working our way down: Interfaith marriage has made America a more tolerant country. When Americans get to know people of another faith through the marriage of an immediate or extended family member, they tend to like all people of that other faith more.
Interfaith marriage has weakened our religious institutions. Families in interfaith marriages are on average simply less committed to religious life than are those in same-faith ones.
Interfaith marriage has brought challenges to our marriages. The happiest marriages are the ones in which the husband and wife share the most in common — whether that’s religion, race, or educational background. Religion can and does become a source of tension.
Finally, on an individual level, while intermarriage can certainly give people a window into a religious community they might otherwise never understand, it also has a way of thwarting the individual spiritual journeys of its members. People will suppress their own desires to grow religiously in order not to rock the boat of their marriage.
Lopez: Does such diversity necessarily dilute a religion’s teaching and practice over time?
Riley: Yes, I don’t think there’s any way around this. Children are more likely to practice and care about a religious community when both of their parents are on board.
Lopez: Who is most welcoming to interfaith families, without losing a love and knowledge of the faith?
Riley: Across the board, about two-thirds of respondents to a nationally representative survey I conducted said that their religious congregation was “very welcoming” of interfaith couples. The only exception to that was Catholics, only about half of whom found their congregations very welcoming. Which is interesting. Because as a theological matter, Catholic doctrine is probably among the most liberal when it comes to allowing intermarriage.
Lopez: Interfaith marriage is hard, isn’t it? Can it really work if one or both take their faith seriously? Who has the most success at it?
Riley: Well, I’ve certainly met couples for whom it has worked. That is, they have happy marriages. If you ask marriage counselors, they will tell you that couples tend to fight about three things — how they spend their time, how they spend their money, and how they raise their children. An interfaith marriage will bring up questions on all three of those topics — from tithing to summer camp to Hebrew school to attendance at religious services. Again, there are plenty of happy interfaith couples, even ones who take each faith seriously, but the marriages require a lot of negotiation and work.
Lopez: What has changed since writing the book?
Riley: Not much. I think the demographic trends are the same. Interfaith marriage is certainly on the rise, and no amount of hand-wringing by religious leaders is going to stop it.
Lopez: Where does it work best for children, in your estimation?
Couples tend to fight about three things — how they spend their time, how they spend their money, and how they raise their children. An interfaith marriage will bring up questions on all three of those topics.
Riley: The plurality of respondents to the survey who were in interfaith marriages said that they were raising kids in one faith. And all things being equal, most people think one faith is the best idea. For one thing, as the kids get older, it becomes increasingly difficult to even find the time to devote to two religious communities. But I think most parents I interviewed felt that it was “unfair” to divide their children’s loyalties into two different religious communities.
Lopez: What do you mean by describing religion as existing “on a kind of” “healthy” “continuum”?
Riley: One downside of intermarriage, I think, is that it will produce a polarization of religious life in America. You will get people who are very orthodox on the one hand. They will marry other members of the faith. Their children will be super-committed. They will end up being in charge of houses of worship, of religious schools, etc. Then on the other hand you will have families with a more and more tenuous connection to faith. And they will simply have less and less to do with religious institutions, which will in turn do less and less to draw them in. I think religion in America is a broad spectrum. People find the need for faith and community at different points in their lives, and I think it’s really helpful that there are communities that can accept them when that happens.
Lopez: “A religious perspective on life can bring us great comfort and happiness or sense of purpose, even at times when we don’t expect it. And there is much to be said for encountering it regularly, even if we are not strong believers.” What do religious institutions do well to make this kind of person a real part of the community?
Riley: There has been lots of talk about interfaith outreach. And I’m not sure it’s as important as we think it is. When I asked people about why they thought that respondents didn’t think the Catholic Church was welcoming to interfaith communities, a number of Catholics said they didn’t think their parishes were particularly welcoming to anyone. We live in a world where religion is a choice. There’s a reason that Evangelical churches have “greeters” outside and coffee shops inside. They want to draw you in. A lot of parishes, I think, are still stuck in the model of “You’ll come because you’re expected to come.”
The Jewish tradition has in some sense a more difficult problem. Since we do not proselytize, how do we even act toward outsiders? Right now I think there is a kind of indifference. But there are interesting models out there for changing that. Something called “The Mothers Circle” has sprung up at synagogues. It’s a support and educational group for non-Jewish mothers who are raising kids Jewish. Which is great, because if you lose the mother, you will lose the kids.
Lopez: What do you hope to impart during the World Meeting of Families?
Riley: I hope that the people in attendance will begin to see intermarriage as not simply a Catholic phenomenon or a Jewish phenomenon but a cultural one. I hope that the people at WMOF will go back to their parishes armed with some knowledge about the difficulties of intermarriage, about the importance of talking about the difficulties in premarital counseling, and about why interfaith marriage is an issue that deserves their attention.
Lopez: What does it mean to you to be participating in this ecumenical international gathering?
Riley: I think it’s an honor, of course. Traditionally this is an issue that has affected my own religious community, the Jewish one, more than others, because of a shrinking population. But I think it’s very helpful that other religious groups are starting to pay attention to it. Even though the Catholic Church is in no danger of disappearing, it seems like an issue that has seriously affected local parishes, and I’m glad to see that it’s getting more attention.
Lopez: What do families need most today? That’s broad, but what could help the most?
Riley: Marriage.
Lopez: What got you into writing about faith and family?
Riley: I started writing about religion because not a lot of other people were at the time. And because it seemed more interesting than a lot of the alternatives. How many journalists get to call up people they don’t even know and ask them where they’re going after this life? As for family, I guess that has come later. It’s obviously deeply connected to faith, but I also think that strengthening families (see above) is about the best thing that could be done for improving the lives of our most disadvantaged neighbors.
Lopez: What’s the most important lesson you’ve learned in your own experience of interfaith marriage?
Riley: That deciding how you’re going to raise the kids is the beginning of the conversation, not the end of it. That interfaith marriage, like all marriage, is a series of tiny negotiations every day, and that interfaith couples should be as prepared for it as they can be.
Lopez: What are you grateful for?
Riley: It’s a long list, but the big ones are my husband and children and having a job that lets me spend lots of time with them and is also fulfilling.